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Slinky
Minors
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Canton, GA
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 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: |
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yeah... my only thing is i don't really like saying "hybrid" as a particular style. everyone combines different elements. Brodeur, i would call a standup-hybrid, same with nabokov... where as Thomas, Miller, Osgood I would call butterfly hybrids. That's why i tend to think of Standup, Butterfly, and Unorthodox as themes rather than styles. Style... everyone is a hybrid of some sort, except maybe Giggy..
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Because it hurts so good.
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itechwarrior
Hall of Fame
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 1120
Location: Surrey, BC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Slinky wrote: | | mental illness does run in the family. Timmy uses the butterfly... not as much as say Lundqvist of course... but yeah. If I had to put him in a category I'd say a butterfly type goalie, even with his sprawling snow-angels and splits saves, if he sees a standard shot from the outside down low, his first response is to hit the butterfly. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_opvbdq-84
I see one proper butterfly save in that entire montage. A butterfly slide to the right. The rest is a bunch of standup/flop style shit that is pure effort and no style. |
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Returning2MyNet
Minors
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Stand up is easy Tretiak
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there is no question this guy was the 1 standup goalie of all time. Perfection of the style.
AS far as the Bfly goes, I dont think we have seen the best yet, there are some great ones for sure, but the best I dont think we have seen yet....likely contenders Price and Turco, and I agree with the above that they may well be the last of the blocking Bfly...we are seeing more changes to style so rapidly in this era of hockey....gear changes, goalie coaches, kenistic analysis of goalies we are on the brink of some neat things, some more likely to more subtle than others.
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Arthriticbutterflystyle
Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1936
Location: Calgary AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Tretiak? Standup? Really...
That guy was one of the Butterfly hybrid pioneers. |
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Baymen8535
High School
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Jones Beach
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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when you look at a goalie you look at there momentary decision making skills. then the execution of those skills. thats how you judge both agoalies style and more so there skill.
givin this general standard, tim tomas is not a well honed fly goalie. i wouldnt even say hese hybrid. hese fairly slopy and not verry athletic. he is verry good positionaly but ends up on hhis back, side or out to far verry often. i am actualy shocked he does as well as he does in the league. thats just my two cents.
someone like giguere always knows where he is in the net. he stays on his knees, plays angles verry well and his reactions are verry predictable and well honed. lundqist is similar, miller is one of the best guys around with respect to knowing when to be aggresve,athleticisim angles and speed.
but yea im not a fan of tim thomas hese pretty sloppy
oh and i also agree with 'returntomynet' i think guys like guguere an lundqvist are asclose to fly perfection as this league has seen thus far but i agree big changes areon the horizon
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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist? |
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Returning2MyNet
Minors
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Arthriticbutterflystyle wrote: | Tretiak? Standup? Really...
That guy was one of the Butterfly hybrid pioneers. |
yes he was a stand up, he was adapting to hybrid style which would also explain why he wa a goalie coach for the likes of Brodure, hasek, Belfour, and Jocelyn Thibault, all hybrid goalies....one has wonder what the hockey would have looked like had the Soviets allowed him to leave and go play for Montreal.
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Baymen8535
High School
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Jones Beach
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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but lets get back to stand up style here, its my opinion that athleticisim, i.e explosive lateral movement,etc; is a more important aspect to stand up than is positional perfection. proof of that would be comparing richter to Kirk Maclain. both accomplished stand ups with two vastly different styles. maclain is bigger, slower and great with angles. richter was small,fast and well lets face it great positionaly as well.
do u guys think great athleticisim is more important than great positioning?
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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist? |
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Arthriticbutterflystyle
Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1936
Location: Calgary AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Returning2MyNet wrote: | | Arthriticbutterflystyle wrote: | Tretiak? Standup? Really...
That guy was one of the Butterfly hybrid pioneers. |
yes he was a stand up, he was adapting to hybrid style which would also explain why he wa a goalie coach for the likes of Brodure, hasek, Belfour, and Jocelyn Thibault, all hybrid goalies....one has wonder what the hockey would have looked like had the Soviets allowed him to leave and go play for Montreal. |
Ok, I always just assumed he was primary to butterfly in the times of standup goalies because the clips I've seen of him he was pretty quick to go down which wasn't really all too common during his time.
And in regards to Bay's post...I think athleticism and positioning are inversely proportionate. What I mean is if you're positioning isn't all that great, you have to be extremely athletic, and if you're not very athletic then you need great positioning. Just watch the SOY nominations on www.NHL.com and you'll understand what I mean. It's like when you're way out of position you need to have that ability to jump across your crease to make the "amazing save" (quoted because amazing saves generally and almost always result from piss-poor positioning). None of the SOY nominations are from well positioned goalies. Hopefully that wall of text is clear enough to explain what I meant. |
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Baymen8535
High School
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Jones Beach
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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point well taken there 'arithritic' makes complete sence.
but if u couldnt tell im a little biast, im still more fond of richter's style than Macleans 
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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist? |
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puckstopper135
Hall of Fame
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Arthriticbutterflystyle wrote: | | And in regards to Bay's post...I think athleticism and positioning are inversely proportionate. What I mean is if you're positioning isn't all that great, you have to be extremely athletic, and if you're not very athletic then you need great positioning. . |
Way to steal was I was going to say  |
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Doosh27
Minors
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Like his style or not, the one thing you cannot say about Thomas is that he isn't athletic. With his style he has to be |
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Arthriticbutterflystyle
Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1936
Location: Calgary AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Doosh27 wrote: | | Like his style or not, the one thing you cannot say about Thomas is that he isn't athletic. With his style he has to be |
Which is exactly what I was saying.  |
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puckstopper135
Hall of Fame
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomas I find is actually kind frustrating to watch. It's like a Hasek wannabe at times... which I was never fond of. |
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Baymen8535
High School
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Jones Beach
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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speaking of thomas, the guy really isnt athletic at all in my opinion. to me, being flexible isnt the definition of total athleticisim. if i saw thomas moving circle to circle super fast maybe so but hese far from doing that. like stated, he does real well throwing his pads around.
it takes great athleticisim to move with power and precision while mantaning propper form. any one can throw them selvs across the crease which is basicly all thomas does.
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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist? |
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itechwarrior
Hall of Fame
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 1120
Location: Surrey, BC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Baymen8535 wrote: | but lets get back to stand up style here, its my opinion that athleticisim, i.e explosive lateral movement,etc; is a more important aspect to stand up than is positional perfection. proof of that would be comparing richter to Kirk Maclain. both accomplished stand ups with two vastly different styles. maclain is bigger, slower and great with angles. richter was small,fast and well lets face it great positionaly as well.
do u guys think great athleticisim is more important than great positioning? |
Really Kirk McLean is not that big of a man. I'm much larger than he is. Richter must have been like 5'8" or something. Kirk is no more than 6 feet max. Regardless of what his stats show. |
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