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Baymen8535
High School
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Jones Beach
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 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: butterfly,stand up? |
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The position has clearly adopted a predominently butterfly style as of the past 15 years. with the exception of some hybrids as marty and nabokov, stand up seems to be all but extinct.
so heres the question, who do u think perfected the stand up style most effectivly?
who do u think has perfected the butterfly style?
this isnt about counting stats, give us your observation based opinions! 
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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist? |
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Arthriticbutterflystyle
Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1936
Location: Calgary AB
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmm...active players only I'm assuming...which kind of eliminates standup. But Hybrid is most obviously Marty...and Butterfly I'd have to say goes to Kipper. If you're talking all time it'd definitely have to be Roy for the butterfly, and there's been so many goalies I've never seen play I can't honestly say who would have the "perfect" standup. I'd go with Esposito for hybrid though...that guy was insane... |
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puckstopper135
Hall of Fame
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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No idea on the stand-up... probably the oldest goalies who played the game before I was born.
Butterfly - Roy. Although I think giguere (as much as I dislike him) has it really well. Perfect example of a bfly goalie, granted he's boring to watch IMO. |
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itechwarrior
Hall of Fame
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 1120
Location: Surrey, BC
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: butterfly,stand up? |
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| Baymen8535 wrote: | | who do u think has perfected the butterfly style? |
Well as stated in another thread recently, there really isn't any pure butterfly goalies anymore.
With emergence of the "New NHL", the plain butterfly blocking goalie has become a bit of an anomaly. They have all become more of a Hybrid style goalie. Because they now have to adapt using new efficient, and effective systems, to stop the puck. Focusing on athletic movement, positioning, and efficient save execution.
A true butterfly is a blocking goalie, this is no longer effective alone due to the fact that the way penalties are called. In the past a goalie could find a position, block, and let his defense men deal with the outcome if he was not able to stop the rebound. There is much more likely chance the puck is going to move, which is going to have to react and change your position. You can no longer rely on your defense man to tie up the guy on the far side of the net. Thus means you can just drop in to your fly, block. You've got to be able to move on your feet, and in your down position.
Luongo, Kipper, Turco, Nabokov are all hybrid goalies.
The closest thing I could think of as more of a true butterfly goalie would be Price, and Fleury. In the west you could almost give Backstrom, the butterfly label, but even all of these names have become more of a hybrid style.
Last edited by itechwarrior on Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Baymen8535
High School
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Jones Beach
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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well lets consider how much faster, skilled and powerful the game has become. i sometimes wonder if old time goalies, even as lait as smith or giacomin could even come close to competing in the league of today. i highly doubt they could. i would agree about roy however there are some new super stars who in my opinion play a far more powerfull and honed buttefyly, i.e playing VERRY deep in the net, having more perfect angles and using reaction AND anticipation rather than a more aggresive style that earlier butterfly had.
after roy i would say for sheer uniquness that lundqvist has an interesting and exciting style, we'll see where it takes him in the league.
stand up i would say marty and richter. marty has a mind for the game i doubt any other guy could come close to and mike was by far the fastest most athletic goalie and stand up in the history of the game. all in my opinion...
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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist? |
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puckstopper135
Hall of Fame
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Baymen8535 wrote: | | i.e playing VERRY deep in the net, |
Lundqvist?  |
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goalieboy#1
Pro
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 512
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| puckstopper135 wrote: | No idea on the stand-up... probably the oldest goalies who played the game before I was born.
Butterfly - Roy. Although I think giguere (as much as I dislike him) has it really well. Perfect example of a bfly goalie, granted he's boring to watch IMO. |
He has a TERRIBLE butterfly.
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Slinky
Minors
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Canton, GA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:24 am Post subject: |
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but he's big! i'm going to go with Ryan Miller and Timmy Thomas as my choices for best butterfly-ish goalies.
no one uses only the butterfly, not even Roy did, i think of the "butterfly" being a overall methodology to goaltending (not necessarily using that one save to stop everything) including pro-fly and hyrbrid butterflies. i really like the way they meld being technically sound, with sometimes just letting arms and legs fly to get whatever they can in front of the puck.
taking standup the same way, a methodology, rather than a style; since every goalie has his own style... I'm still at a loss. Richter, Brodeur and Nabokov would all be excellent choices. Anyone have a 3 sided coin?
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Because it hurts so good.
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Arthriticbutterflystyle
Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1936
Location: Calgary AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:31 am Post subject: |
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I really don't think by Itech's standards there were ever true butterfly goalies. Not Roy, Tretiak, Kipper, Esposito...I think it's more of a way to describe how a goalie primarily makes their saves. If you go by that standard then I think you'll get a more accurate sampling. Same goes for Standup which doesn't exist because I don't think any goalie primarily stands up to stop shots anymore. Then you have Hybrid, which would be Marty because he doesn't standup, and you'll almost never see him butterfly, but he gets the job done in any myriad of amazing saves.
And Slinky, I'm sure one of your chess friends has a three sided coin. |
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itechwarrior
Hall of Fame
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 1120
Location: Surrey, BC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Slinky wrote: | | but he's big! i'm going to go with Ryan Miller and Timmy Thomas as my choices for best butterfly-ish goalies. |
TIM THOMAS A BUTTERFLY GOALIE? Are you nuts? |
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Slinky
Minors
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Canton, GA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| itechwarrior wrote: | | Slinky wrote: | | but he's big! i'm going to go with Ryan Miller and Timmy Thomas as my choices for best butterfly-ish goalies. |
TIM THOMAS A BUTTERFLY GOALIE? Are you nuts? |
mental illness does run in the family. Timmy uses the butterfly... not as much as say Lundqvist of course... but yeah. If I had to put him in a category I'd say a butterfly type goalie, even with his sprawling snow-angels and splits saves, if he sees a standard shot from the outside down low, his first response is to hit the butterfly.
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Because it hurts so good.
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goalieboy#1
Pro
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 512
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Timmy is the goalie that his strategy is, flail around, do everything as unorthadocs as possible and hopefully stop the piece of vulcanized rubber flying at my face. He has perfected that strategy, and is very good.
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Arthriticbutterflystyle
Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1936
Location: Calgary AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| That would make him hybrid imo. |
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Slinky
Minors
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Canton, GA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| goalieboy#1 wrote: | | Timmy is the goalie that his strategy is, flail around, do everything as unorthadocs as possible and hopefully stop the piece of vulcanized rubber flying at my face. He has perfected that strategy, and is very good. |
That's Hasek. Timmy was very much that goalie, he's settled down some in the last season and a half or so... granted not a whole lot, but some. I do understand your point, first time i saw Thomas b-fly i almost shit myself, i've seen him do it fairly regularly since.
Arth - everyone is some sort of hybrid. like i said, if i put him into standup, butterfly or unorthodox... i'd actually say he is a touch more butterfly than unorthodox now. a year ago, i would have slapped myself for even thinking such things.
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Because it hurts so good.
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Arthriticbutterflystyle
Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1936
Location: Calgary AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, but you're missing what I said earlier. I don't think you can truly put any goalie in a pure category, so you have to find what they're most prone to...
I.E.-
Brodeur-Hybrid
Nabakov-Hybrid
Roy-Butterfly
Kipper-Butterfly
Giggy-Butterfly
Lundqvist-Hybrid
Get it? |
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