Goaltending Stances...

Ebywyld · Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: Goaltending Stances...

A question for all of you veterans out there Smile

When a goalie moves around first, while the puck is being played, for example, between the point and slot, or from player to player on the opposing team, what is that stance called? For right now, I'll call it 'Basic stance'.

Right before the shot is coming, I'll call that 'pre-shot stance'.

Alright, what are good stances to use, for a developing (i.e. brand freakin' new) goaltender? Has there been one stance that has been proven to work the best? Most effective? Do goaltenders change their pre-shot stance based upon how CLOSE the puck is to them? Is this good, or just a bad habit?

And if anybody could send pictures on this thread, of either of their stances, it would help. Point out the good parts of it, the bad, etc. and explain why.

I'm so ridiculously new to this, but I take it so seriously that I don't want to start off learning bad habits. I'm 24... I don't have enough TIME to unlearn bad habits, haha. I want to take this as far as I can, and although I know I probably won't ever even make it to the minor leagues starting so late, its a good dream to have Smile

Any help would be appreciated.
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Think YOUR goaltending is bad? Mine is so bad, I made a blog about it. I should rename it 'inspirational blog for anybody ELSE between the posts...'

http://eebs-rookiegoaltender.blogspot.com/

puckstopper135 · Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject:

First off, it's good to hear you're so welcoming to any and all ideas.

I'd say that when the goalie is moving around following the puck, that's just considered goalie movements. These can consist of T-pushes, shuffles, etc... anything to face the puck. Then as the players look like they're about to shoot, that's essentially the goalie's stance.

You can't really say one stance has all the answers - look at Martin Brodeur compared to Marc Andre Fleury. Brodeur uses primarily a hybrid style, meaning he will use certain aspects of the butterfly style combined with the stand up style. If you watch Fleury, he uses a full butterfly style. Both work well in their own situations.

I'd post pictures, but I'm at camp in Timmins. Once I get home, I'll find a bunch and post them for you if nobody else has.

Returning2MyNet · Minors Joined: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 379

in the corey wogtec video where he is standing and moving around the the top of the crease, he is shuffling, ie keeping all his gear square to the puck, with both feet forward toward the puck, you can also do this while down in a crouch, the shuffle is used for tracking, making small adjustments anymore, it used to be on the old standup the only way to move with super dull skates. n all stances your weight is the on the balls of your feet.

your stance, a basic stance for a hybrid goalie is feet just more than should width apart, but down chest up like sitting on a chair, for butter fly, you are more than should width, for stand up, your pads are touching together and in lue of the bfly you make kick saves, by driving your save side leg forward and arching it to the outside kicking the puck....most of the stand up left occurs with out kick saves, only when tight to the post blocker side puck down bellow the glass side hash marks.
Glove side CS is used a lot more than blcoker side where the goalie is down on his blocker side knee with leg parallel to the goal line, in tight to the up leg pad which is verticle and touching the post, glove elbow on knee filling the top corner, head tight to glove ( this save can be seen at the end of that wogtech video.

* note try to make mental notes when shots come of where the shot comes from, and when you make the save make a note o where you are on the crease...if your getting shots from a few feet right of the left face dot and your seeing blue in front of you when you make a save, you are way to deep. Work staying out next time to cut the angles better.
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Ebywyld · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:58 am Post subject:

Ok.

Aggression is one thing I'm kind of clueless about. I started, like I'm assuming most people who can't skate do, way too far back into my crease. A player told me 'come out, never have the back of your skates anywhere but the OUTSIDE of your crease'.

I tried that.

It turned out horribly. I got back door passes all day long, and was picked apart with passes. With my horrendous skills at catching myself ONCE I've made a move, I was picked apart by absolutely everybody.

That being said, another goaltender that plays (and is amazing BTW) plays almost ALWAYS inside of his own crease! From what I've heard, thats terrible, but he is quick as lightning, and somehow stops EVERYTHING.

Now, all that being said: what is most advantageous?

Should I play mostly in my crease and just come out quickly when I know a shot is coming? Should I start more aggressive, and then push BACK towards my posts to handle passes?

In terms of stances: do I want more of a stand-up or butterfly style when the puck is far away? Close by? I've seen most people lower their stance when the puck is nearby, and stand up more when it's further away. Is that a good habit, or a bad one most people just tend to fall into?
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Think YOUR goaltending is bad? Mine is so bad, I made a blog about it. I should rename it 'inspirational blog for anybody ELSE between the posts...'

http://eebs-rookiegoaltender.blogspot.com/

puckstopper135 · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:31 am Post subject:

You want to be agressive, but not stupid about it. By this I mean if the puck is out at the blue line being passed between the defense, you would want to be at least at the top of your crease, if not farther. Obviously as the puck starts to get moved in more, you would back up appropriately. Regarding back door passes - in a normal league you would assume that's the defense's job. At least, I always tell my defense to worry about them, and that way I can focus on the shot. But if you're playing a rec/pick-up league... the term "defense" doesn't really exist, in which case you're on your own. So at that point I'd still challenge as much as I can, but be aware of where their forwards are, and adjust to that. Once your skating gets better, you'll find you can still challenge, and be able to trust yourself to either t-push or butterfly slide over in time to catch the backdoor guy.

In terms of the stances - I think that's just a habit people fall into. I don't adjust my stance based on how far the puck is. I've got one "pre-shot" stance (as you call it) and that's the same for every shot I face. I might alter it a little based on who's shooting, because I've been facing the same shooters for about 3 years now. If I know this girl will always shoot glove side, I might cheat a little to that side, but still be ready to go the other way. My stance is definitely that of a butterfly goalie. Advantages include being able to drop to the ice faster. Disadvantages I find are that if I'm caught too low in my stance and they pass it, I can get caught flatfooted - something I'm still trying to improve.

Here's some pictures - after a quick search mind you.

Martin Brodeur (note that this was taken as he was moving slightly, but the basic idea is still there - notice how close his feet are to his body)

Actually, looking through my old pictures - I found this one of myself when I first started off, and was primarily a stand up style goalie.

Random goalie with a butterfly stance - notice how the feet are more spread out, thus reducing the distance between his pads and the ice, making dropping to the butterfly much easier. Note that the goalie should be using the fingers up technique with the glove... doesn't appear to be doing so in this one.

And one I thought I'd throw in - a proper butterfly

Returning2MyNet · Minors Joined: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 379

Think of goal tending like kung fu. Where each save is a particular movement, The butterfly ( where by your just droping down to get the low shot squareed up is say a kick, a glove save a basic bunch, a butterfly from the top left side of the crease to the post to get a back door properly is like like a foot sweep. You dont start your first day of kung fu class with foot sweeps. Then when you do get in a fight even then movements will not be exactly as you practiced them, because you have to deveate for variables.

So you have to look at a path of progression for goaltending. Normally this path begins at an early age, but it doesnt have to.
First thing you need to do is work your a$$ off at skating, but we can short cut a bit here, you dont need to skate laps at the rink, but go to open skates and skate all the way around once doing t-pushes followed right off by hard stops on the left skate, then go around stoping on the right. Then go around shuffling to right in a mock stance, then the left. Then get in the crease, where the left post goes is #1 the top left corner is #2, the top is #3 top right 4 and right post 5 and 6 is on the line inthe middle of the net. knowing these postions and being able to move fast and hard while up from 1-2-5, 5-2-1, 1 -3-5,5-3-1 6-3-1 6-3-5 you get the idea
when you play do your best to get out on top, but read the plays and watch the players, you will be able to know when the puck handler is going to shoot and when hes going to make that pass to the back door. (players 9 out of 10 times stop moving their feet when they go to shoot.) they also for most none pro players will pick thier heads up to look at you then look down to shoot, pros will just look past you to the shot point. Should you notice a particular shooter keeps geting shots up over your glove when you go down, dont go down next time, or when you do bring your glove up to take it away ( but now you have just given the low away.)
I know your playing mostly drop ins and d is generally nonexistant at them, but do your best to keep aware of where everyone is on ice, when a guy is breaking out the puck who would you pass it too, and who will that person be looking to pass the puck too,,,like pool stay ahead of the play.
One last thing that you will p[ick up in a league, on any given team of say 12-15, while they all will and can shoot generaly there are only 3 that are shooters, the rest pass and support those 3 its because those three have some ability to get where they need to be score, so some extra attention to them is needed.
as far as
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Ebywyld · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject:

Awesome. Thank you VERY much for the detailed explanation of stance, puckstopper, with the images. That helps put it into perspective quite a bit.

And thank you again, R2MN, the exercise itself is great. I have a pick-up game at noon (it's 7:30 right now) so after that, I have 2 hours of open ice, I'll be drilling the crap out of it. T-push and shuffle!

One thing I've noticed is that I feel flat-footed if my stance is too far apart. I'm going to work today on finding out how comfortable I am with a wide stance, and then shrink it in, and see where the balance lies that I can get down quickly enough to stop shots, but stay high enough to be able to move well. I'll have more to report in about 8 hours, so we'll see.

So far though, thank you VERY much for the help! It's paying huge dividends in my gameplay, and my buddies are all noticing. The compliments are daily, if not hourly!
_________________
Think YOUR goaltending is bad? Mine is so bad, I made a blog about it. I should rename it 'inspirational blog for anybody ELSE between the posts...'

http://eebs-rookiegoaltender.blogspot.com/

Returning2MyNet · Minors Joined: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 379

here are the basic skills you should and a rough order I would sugest you follow
as an overall development plan. I am assuming you know which piece of equipment to use to make which save ie not reaching across your body with your catch when you should use your blocker etc..
1. determine you ready stance, and maintain that stance from when they hit the blue line to when the puck exists your zone
2. good recoveries from saves, find the puck and get in front of it and get up (lots of good stuff on recoveries and techniques out there)
3.net coverage, stay square in ready stance, moving to the above mentioned positions, and telescoping the angles with t-pushes, c cuts and the shuffle
4. keep track of the puck and the next highest threat
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puckstopper135 · Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:29 am Post subject:

Hey, I think I found some pictures to illustrate what you meant by "basic stance" and pre-shot stance. Correct me if I'm wrong Smile

*Sorry for the crappy quality. Shot with my low-res digital camera.

Here's my sister in the middle of a T-push, following the puck as it gets passed around. Is this what you were referring to as basic stance? Or did you mean more the shuffle? Essentially they are both ways to follow the puck around the ice, only used in different situations.

And here's the closest picture I could get to her "pre-shot stance" (IE - the stance she's in as the shot is being taken) Note she would normally have her knees more bent and the glove moved about 2 inches away from the current position.

Returning2MyNet · Minors Joined: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 379

PUCKSTOPPER IF YOU DO NOT GO INTO SOME KIND OF TV-FILM OR phot journalism you are doing yourself a great injustice, your good, and clearly have a passion for it and you should pursue it.
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puckstopper135 · Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject:

Thanks. And I'm not... I'm taking nursing. Although I would LOVE to start up a website on the side that does strictly local hockey videos/photos for extra cash.

Mind you, it'd be a matter of finding time, and I'd have to upgrade to a better camera for sure, and eventually a better video camera and video editing software.

Maybe a few years down the road...

Ebywyld · Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:28 am Post subject:

Hmm, it seems Hockey attracts medical professionals. I'm currently a paramedic working to medical school Smile

Anyways, these gloves are lucky or something. I kicked some butt on another game! Not a shut-out this time, but I only allowed 2 goals in an hour and a half of pick-up... not bad, I say! Robbed a few breakaways WITH that particular set of glove/blocker! Much easier when I don't feel the pain, haha.
_________________
Think YOUR goaltending is bad? Mine is so bad, I made a blog about it. I should rename it 'inspirational blog for anybody ELSE between the posts...'

http://eebs-rookiegoaltender.blogspot.com/

Vigier · Minors Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 270 Location: Manitoba

PS, does your sister always t-push back when there's no pressure by the other team? I'm just saying this because I haven't seen anybody do that, but it must be a good habit to get into.
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puckstopper135 · Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:44 am Post subject:

No Veej, I can't recall seeing her do that much in a game situation since she prefers to save energy. In this session it's mostly just a chance for girls to get their legs going if they haven't been on the ice a lot over the summer. So she does kind of a roller coaster practice... she'll go hard, then she'll get lazy, then go hard, then get lazy. So often times I'll see her doing a T-push or extra shuffles when she wouldn't normally need to, but because she knows she was slacking beforehand.

And yeah, it's a good habit to get into at any age, especially in practices. Example, I always teach the goalies to follow through on any rebounds (time permitting between shots).

More likely to happen in a game Very Happy

Vigier · Minors Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 270 Location: Manitoba

As long as I can find my camera, there should be on ice footage from our shooting session tomorrow.

To keep on topic, my stance isn't to wide, since I don't butterfly on every save. I'll see if I have any pictures.
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